Q&A with the Distributor

With his brothers Rick and Rodney, Robert Scaman is the co-founder of the first certified organic distribution center in the Midwest, your very own Goodness Greeness. As a second-generation produce wholesaler, Bob has been exposed to the industry since as far back as he can remember. With a keen awareness of the environmental issues surrounding agriculture at the time, fifteen years ago, he and his brothers saw a need for better post-harvest handling and distribution of organic produce in the Chicago area. It was during an evening of pool on the north shore of Chicago that the name Goodness Greeness was first spoken. All of them found it funny and all of them agreed that it was it. Mercedee Renz sat down with Bob to find out what has transpired since that evening.

Mercedee Renz: Give us a brief history of why you started Goodness Greeness.
Robert Scaman: Well, in 1990 times were economically difficult. My brothers and I didn’t have jobs. I was in my mid-twenties, had experience in the produce business, and was concerned about the environmental consequences of all the chemicals used in the fields. Growing up, my mom had her own garden and instilled in us a sort of integrity: If we weren’t going to spray vegetables in our own garden, why would we buy them sprayed from the grocery store? Just after I graduated from high school the first Farm Aid concert in Champaign took place and it was then that I first saw the direct correlation between heightened food production and the extinction of small farms. And then the televised report came out in 1989 on the carcinogenic effects of Alar. It was a pivotal time. So we created for ourselves jobs that we knew we could execute well and that were at the same time interesting and beneficial to the environment.

MR: Where is the organic industry today?
RS: To answer that, you need to know where it was. Back when we started, it was a grass roots industry, driven and dictated by consumer demand and proliferated through gorilla marketing. Today, independent companies have been so successful that big corporations are jumping in. It’s safe to say organic is here to stay. It’s moved from the fringes to the middle of the road. With so many hands involved, from Big Money, large agribusinesses, retail chains, it is a confusing time—they are turning safe food into a commodity, which is a good thing as long as the integrity of the term organic is maintained. From the start, no one in the industry was interested in government involvement and now, with government regulations, watch-dog organizations have sprouted to protect the public interest. It’s an uncomfortable spot to be in the hands of the government when big businesses continually try to reinvent regulations. Up to now the integrity of “organic” has been maintained. But the industry needs constant maintenance so consumers don’t loose confidence.

MR: Where is it heading?
RS: The term “organic” is set in stone but will continually be tweaked by the USDA, lobbying groups, and the National Organics Standard Board. But while we specify what it means for food to be organic, new standards are sprouting and “certified organic” is becoming the minimum. Fair Trade, Local, Regional, Family-farmed, Biodynamic are helping re-define our choices and freedoms. Eventually, though I don’t think the term will stick, biodynamic standards will become the new organic. It’s an evolution of what the consumer demands and values.

MR: Then where do you see the local organic industry and where it is heading?
RS: Chicago is so far behind compared to the other sides of the country. We aren’t at their level of consciousness. Maybe it’s because of how long it takes to finally get out of the urban area, there’s this disconnect. So I think “regional” is a more relevant term for Chicago’s local market. Its future is growing. We are still being educated on where it is produced. And as fuel costs and population growth continue to rise, the transparency of local production only tightens the controls on what is happening to our food. Local will become bigger and bigger, from the producer to the retailer. Information today is disseminated so quickly that, for the first time in a long time, it can support local markets and small producers. They become viable, creating their own brand and following for their product.

MR: Where does Goodness Greeness stand within this industry? What is your vision of where we are heading?
RS: Stereotypically, as the distributor, we are the lynch pin of the industry. Farmers are rock stars—which is all good. But they are poor marketers and distributors. Retailers and chefs are the face of the industry. Distributors have the dirty job of moving boxes from farm to store and restaurant. As distributor, we are the guys who drive around trucks 24-7; the despised Middleman. But I don’t feel we are just that. Our infrastructure of maintaining the cold chain and transporting product to its final destination are necessary ingredients in this industry. Our lotting
system is integral to traceability: Every received shipment is tagged with a lot number that can be traced to its exact date and source. This means the product moves in a timely and affordable fashion, keeping it extremely fresh. We are the unseen component that makes it happen. Small producers can’t economically distribute boxes all around Chicago. It may not be a prudent use of their valuable time and resources. We bring retailers everything they could want to be in the business. But we don’t want to be just an organic distributor. We want to prove we have the best product available. To do this we keep re-evaluating what we do so we become more efficient in our distribution and communication. We are striving to grow by supporting the growth of our producers and retailers and by educating our consumers about what we are doing through our newsletters and website.

MR: How involved is Goodness Greeness in the local food system?
RS: We’re moving as many boxes as are available and as supply grows, we’ll move more. Since the beginning, we have supported the local system as much as we can. Our philosophy hasn’t changed—it’s the consumers and producers who are awakening.

MR: Are there any obstacles at local and federal levels to more local, sustainable food?
RS: There is the exact opposite. In Illinois there is incredible support from governments. Mayor Daley wants Chicago to be the greenest city in America. But his initiatives are still in their infancy. The Green City Market is only eight years old and Daley has been working in the city for sixteen. Through steady changes, Chicago is becoming an urban center that can support many self-sustaining avenues. Consumers are ready—they just need to ask their retailers. Especially their independent retailers, who can quickly respond to consumer demand and at the same time model their success for larger retailers. Just like the history of organic, if consumers ask for local—it will be brought in.

MR: What are the biggest challenges for farmers?
RS: Farmers face the same challenges all small business owners face: They must define the market they want to target, put together a good plan to reach it, and stick to that plan until its completion. They need to listen to what the consumers want but not try to be everything to everybody. Jen Ehr, Homegrown Wisconsin, and Harmony Valley are good examples of how farmers can thrive. These farmers have operated within their means, determined their strengths and marketed them. When they identified their weaknesses, they sought out people who do it better and asked for help.

MR: What do trade customers need to know to better understand the local supply chain?
RS: If they decide they want to participate in the local market, they need to understand the evolution of the consumers who value local food. If consumers are looking for an heirloom tomato grown in Wisconsin, they are okay with it looking ugly and being extremely ripe. They don’t want food that looks perfect. They want to pay for food that was made with the best ingredients for their health, and the health of the producers and land. So retailers need to turn their values around and be open to this new perception of food. This means they’ll have to look for food that is priced differently, picked at riper stages, and doesn’t match perfectly in size and appearance. The local supply chain cannot be imposed with conventional food standards. The value of the local supply chain belongs to the consumer, which suggests that the consumer is ultimately right. 

MR: Why are organic prices higher than conventional?
RS: This is a market-driven economy and today, the demand is higher than the supply. Additionally, the costs of production are definitely more than conventional because you can’t have large scale production in this industry. Because of this, higher levels of management are required, in other words—more work.

MR: Do local organic prices compete with regular organic prices? Why or why not?
RS: They can compete, but the local industry is still new. There are a couple producers who have reached a competitive scale. But most of these farmers are still building an infrastructure to support growth. So this early growth we are experiencing is more expensive to navigate. Once they gain more experience, they’ll find more ways to cut costs. It’s just very difficult right now. But the future is bright. It is absolutely possible to have a year-round local market.

MR: What are the benefits of going organic?
RS: There are different benefits for each end. For the producer: It can depend on their size and situation. Basically, they become stewards of the land, improving our soil and being rewarded for their efforts. They are passing down a legacy of healthy consumption for their surrounding neighbors. For the consumer: They are supporting producers who use pro-active, safe farming techniques. They are providing themselves and their family safer, more nutritious food. And they are voting for a more sustainable planet. For the retailer: They want to do what is right for the consumer by giving them the best product out there, which is local and sustainable. To bring that product in is to put your best foot forward. You can’t fail when you do that. It’s the safest and best food available and its own merits will justify it.

MR: How do you anticipate the entry of "Big Box" retailers in the organic industry?

RS: I believe more consumers will be able to buy organic products, which is a very good thing. My enthusiasm, however, is tempered by concern because, historically, these kinds of retailers have pushed producers to sell for less than their production costs until those producers are put out of business and production must be moved out of the country. If this happens, all our work will be gone. However, they claim they have implemented more socially responsible actions. We’re at a crossroad. I hope they will be partners with their producers. We are all in this to make money, that goes for those of us who move boxes and drive the trucks, and for those producers who work in the field. We all want to feed consumers but we also have to be able to feed ourselves.

Q&A with the Researcher:

Ron Doetch is the Executive Director at Michael Fields Agricultural Institute, the second-largest non-profit organization in the country, researching and disseminating sustainable agriculture alternatives. His staff harvests and researches 1000 acres of biodynamic terrain as well as maintain greenhouses, a mill, bakery, dormitories, wind turbines, solar panels, water filtration, their Field’s retail store, and a spot at the year-round Milwaukee Public Market. MFAI offers classes to all levels and is currently developing a five-mile walking trail around their land with information kiosks. Eager to hear what Ron had to say about local agriculture, we sat down with him for an in-depth discussion. of what we found out.

Mercedee Renz: How would you summarize MFAI’s approach to local, organic agriculture?
Ron Doetch We want to demonstrate how the food system can change on a large scale. Farmer’s markets are quaint and give people a chance to get to know their farmer, but they are not going to feed a lot of people. And no one is talking about how, per-mile, per-pound, a full semi traveling across the country is less impacting than a farmer driving out an hour with his small bounty of produce. Truly local must be transporting large lots small distances. Local food must be do-able, not hypothetical. We are real, on the ground, and sharing in the values and needs. We have retail stores, warehousing, food policies pushed at county levels all the way to federal levels, and we’re out there farming. The consumers are open to change but the producer mentality must change to catch up. We know there is a better way and we are out to find it.

MR: Do you think something is missing in society when we lose connection to the land that makes our food?
RD:We lose the sense of community that we are in this together. We lose values—the reality that we are what we eat. How did we lose sight of the fact that we should be attached to our food culture? We’re too trained to not talk about food and where it comes from. But it’s our heritage. And it’s our health. Truly, the secret to longevity is to keep eating healthy food.

MR: An often-discussed obstacle for farmers is that between the worlds of urbanites and ruralites. Do you consider this a barrier for farmers to cross?
RD: Why do they need to cross that barrier? Farmers are not set up to distribute and sell. The farmer’s market system forces them to cross that barrier. But then again, it forces them to recognize the consumer’s wants. We need to get farmers to listen to consumers. A challenge I see is for farmers to learn to work as a community rather than as individuals. We need more conversation between farmer and consumer and about what’s available through government funding. Then we can hone efficient means to produce and sell. Other obstacles are for farmers who have just transitioned from conventional. They come in with basic technological knowledge but lack an education that’s derived directly from the soil; they lack a passion for sustainable agriculture. They’re ingrained in a habit of survival, to chase the dollar—which is often why they are drawn to the organic side. A huge learning curve for them is essentially letting the environment dictate crop cultivation instead of forcing crop cultivation.

MR: So is local better? Does it taste better? Is it healthier?
RD: Yes but not necessarily. It’s healthier if the water and soil is healthy. We still have barriers to overcome. Because of poor post-handling, shelf-life is still poor. We basically have to reach a critical mass of production to reach core changes in the ways we cultivate, process, and distribute our local products. We need a regional warehouse with PLU’s, stickers, and boxes. Further on, I envision RFID tags—basically a code on the item’s sticker that can be scanned by an I-pod to feed all sorts of information: Where it comes from, certification, recipes, nutrition.

MR: From your perspective, what can consumers do to support a more sustainable food system?
RD: ASK for local food wherever you shop! Be more vocal in all aspects, at school and with politicians. Talk about it. But don’t talk about what’s bad. It just perpetuates it. Talk about the change that is good. The consumer has a big voice. Its momentum forces change.

MR: Where does Michael Fields come in to help consumers make changes?
RD: Our policy work is extensive. Our electronic newsletters let consumers know what food policy issues are being discussed and who they can call to leverage change.

MR: How do you like working with Goodness Greeness?
RD: I love working with Goodness Greeness. I do. They provide a real food distribution system that is wide and prompt. We are working with farmers to connect with them to Goodness Greeness because they provide unselfish information that doesn’t make the farmer captive to them. You hear a lot of negative references about the middleman or the distributor. But there is a reason that guy exists. If they don’t want him around, they better find out what he does and do it better—but these farmers can’t be everything to everybody.

For more about their classes, signing up for their newsletter, and how to get to MFAI, visit: www.michaelfieldsaginst.org/

Q&A with the Farmer:

J & I Produce is a combination of two farms a short jaunt from one another, accessed by way of winding gravel roads that spill off Indiana’s highway 41. One farm, the “J”, is manned by Jacob Stoltzfus while the other is tended by his younger brother Isaac, “I”. Fourteen years ago Jacob and Isaac starting working this land when their family moved from Lancaster, PA. They were the second Amish family to settle down in the area and now, ages 27 and 29, they own the land and have their own families. While they politely declined to be photographed, they encouraged us to take pictures of their crop and animals. They were jovial and surprisingly hilarious too. Here is just a little of what we found out.

Mercedee Renz: How long has your farm been certified organic?
Isaac Stoltzfus: Well our father certified it. How long ago was that?
Jacob Stoltzfus: It was just before I married. So about six years I’d say.

MR: Why do you farm in this way?
IS: We like it. We don’t use any chemical sprays.
JS: It’s more healthy. We learned from our Dad to stay away from chemicals. You could say we were taught to dislike using chemicals.

MR: Would you say you do it because you are paid better?
IS: Yes, the pay is better for our extra labor. When we don’t use strong chemicals we have to work harder. With the other stuff you go out to field once a week and it lasts. Our biological insecticides are milder and get us out there spraying three times a week.
JS: So we use more of the natural sprays. And put in more labor. Plus we loose more to bugs that just end up coming back every year, like the cucumber beetle.

MR: What are the disadvantages of farming organically?
JS: It’s labor intensive.
IS: And the seasons don’t last as long and the produce doesn’t last as long with the biological sprays. And you have to make sure it stays uncontaminated so that it complies.
JS: Bookwork! I can’t stand all the bookwork.
IS: Well, we’d have to do it anyway.
JS: But not as much.

MR: It’s a common mindset that Amish farms are organic. Is this true?
JS: No. No. Not at all. This is something our father taught us.
IS: It was during the 50’s when all these chemicals came out and people thought it was better and easier. Many of our neighbors think this too.

MR: So what products do you farm?
IS: Whatever people want. Out here in the garden, it all goes to our families and to people who come by.
JS: There’s peas, sweet corn, asparagus, potatoes, carrots, radish, onion, red beets—
IS: Raspberries, blueberries, strawberries, apples, and peaches… We going too fast? You getting all this down?
JS: And cherries. 
IS: Did we say green beans?
MR: And to sell to the general public you have—?
IS: Zucchini, cucumbers, tomatoes, and peppers.
JS: We’ve had herbs in the past, but not this year.
IS: And Bob has tried to talk us into planting watermelons and cantaloupe too.  

MR: And how do you like working with Goodness Greeness?
IS: That’s a hard question—(laughs).
JS: We like the people. The people are very friendly.
IS: Our truckers don’t like going all the way to Chicago.
JS: We’ve been with you almost the whole time we’ve been certified.

MR: How did you find us?
IS: A friend told us some organic guys were up in Chicago so I tried that 4111 number.
MR: You mean 411?
IS: It’s that number you call and they automatically tell you whatever number you ask for.

MR: Where can the public find your produce?
JS: Customers drive by and buy some.
IS: Plus Wholefoods and you guys.

MR: You’re not at a farmer’s market?
JS: No. But we sometimes go to the Rockville produce auction to sell our extra produce.

MR: Alright gentlemen. Thank you for having me out here.
IS: You’re welcome.
JS: Thanks for coming out.